Meeting on November 17, 2008

Agenda

1. Attendance
2. Announce agenda
3. Approve November 3, 2008. Ask for review and address any problems seen in the notes.
4. FLOSS manuals.
   1. Brief review and discussion
   2. Vote to recommend FLOSS manuals. Simple majority of those attending the meeting is required to make an official recommendation.
5. Open questions
6. Summary and closing

Notes

Attendance

• kstreith
• rforehan
• raevans
• gmartin_cn
• dsulgrov
• goffena
• dadkins
• mconsidi

Summary

The previous meeting minutes were reviewed and approved. The recommendation to use FLOSS Manuals for the user tutorials was discussed in detail and approved via a vote.

Decisions

• FLOSS Manuals is the recommended method of writing Opticks user tutorials. (6 yes votes, 2 abstains)

Logs

	***	Opened channel log for #opticks at 11/17/2008 2:01:29 PM
14:01	kstreith	logging is now enabled
14:02	kstreith	let's start with attendance, please respond if you are here for the meeting, so I know who is idle and who is in attendance
14:02	rforehan	Here
14:02	raevans	Here
14:02	gmartin_cn	Here
14:02	dsulgrov	here
14:02	goffena	h
14:02	kstreith	here is a summary of the agenda
14:03	kstreith	# Attendance
14:03	kstreith	# Announce Agenda
14:03	kstreith	# Approve [[3Nov2008|November 3, 2008]] meeting notes. Ask for review and address any problems seen in the notes.
14:04	kstreith	# FLOSS Manuals
14:04	kstreith	# Brief review and discussion
14:04	kstreith	# Vote to recommend FLOSS Manuals. Simple majority of those attending the meeting is required to make an official recommendation
14:04	kstreith	# Open Questions
14:04	kstreith	# Summary and closing
14:05	***	mconsidi (n=mconsidi@12.188.157.129) has joined #opticks
14:05	kstreith	the previous meeting minutes are here: https://opticks.balldayton.com/cometwiki/3Nov2008
14:06	kstreith	can everyone quickly review?
14:06	kstreith	if there are any problems, speak up
14:06	kstreith	silence will be regarded as approval
14:07	mconsidi	OK
14:07	***	dadkins (i=0cbc9d81@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-725ea7aad63b752b) has joined #opticks
14:08	kstreith	previous minutes are approved, since no comments have been made
14:08	kstreith	mconsidi, dadkins: are you considering yourselves present for the meeting?
14:08	mconsidi	Yes
14:08	dadkins	yes sir
14:09	kstreith	the agenda is here: https://opticks.balldayton.com/cometwiki/17Nov2008
14:09	kstreith	we just finished approving the previous meeting minutes
14:09	kstreith	now, for the FLOSS Manuals part of the meeting
14:10	kstreith	at the last meeting, we discussed http://en.flossmanuals.net/
14:10	kstreith	and using it for user tutorials
14:11	kstreith	the purpose of this meeting is to discuss that further
14:11	kstreith	and hold a vote on whether we should recommend using FLOSS Manuals
14:11	kstreith	any inputs before we hold a vote?
14:11	kstreith	i'll discuss the voting procedures before we hold the vote
14:14	kstreith	any questions, concerns, comments before we hold a vote?
14:16	kstreith	alright, so voting procedures
14:16	kstreith	as discussed last meeting, if you would like to vote for the issue, respond with "+1"
14:16	kstreith	if you want to vote against, either "-1" or say nothing which will be interpreted as a no vote
14:17	kstreith	if you wish to abstain, respond with "+0"
14:17	dsulgrov	what exactly are we voting on?
14:17	kstreith	alright, now for the actual vote
14:17	kstreith	to answer dsulgrov's question
14:18	kstreith	we are voting on recommending the usage of FLOSSManuals (i.e. http://flossmanuals.net/ ) as the location for Opticks user tutorials
14:18	kstreith	instead of the on-line help included with the application
14:18	***	wwolfe (i=0cbc9d81@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-73b243e5344ea6ba) has joined #opticks
14:18	kstreith	are more questions, before I open up the vote?
14:19	rforehan	Any problem using it for clasified plug-ins
14:19	kstreith	the site is available to the world, just as opticks.ballforge.net is
14:19	dadkins	"Instead of" or "in addition to"?
14:19	kstreith	so any content that goes out there must be freely distributable
14:20	rforehan	So we're just talking about the open source tutorials?
14:20	kstreith	correct
14:20	dsulgrov	is the vote just for the tutorials or all of the online help?
14:20	kstreith	just the tutorials
14:21	kstreith	to answer any lingering questions, FLOSS Manuals allows you to generate pdf's. So, I assume we would generate pdf's from the site before releases and bundle those pdf's into the installer.
14:21	rforehan	The positive side is that community contributors can add to the tutorials?
14:21	kstreith	for those that may not want to go to the site.
14:21	kstreith	correct
14:21	kstreith	the rationale for using this site, is that anyone can create an account in 30 seconds and then be able to add/edit content to the tutorials
14:22	kstreith	i.e. they don't need to know anything about Subversion, Flare, etc. to contribute changes to the tutorials
14:22	dsulgrov	is the content moderated in any way?
14:22	gmartin_cn	I assume we will link from the file releases area to the site to make it easy for folks browsing opticks.ballforge.net to find?
14:22	kstreith	they just create an account and then use a WYSIWYG editor
14:23	kstreith	gmartin_cn: i would imagine yes would would like to the site, haven't thought out the details yet.
14:23	kstreith	dsulgrov: yes and no
14:23	dadkins	dsulgrov: From their website "The changes you make in the 'write' section do not go live until the changes are approved and the newly updated manual is 'published'. It is only then that the changes are visible from the 'Read' section, so don't feel intimidated about contributing here!"
14:23	kstreith	dadkins comment is correct
14:23	dadkins	so it would need to be approved by someone
14:24	kstreith	however, if you create an account, you can view other in progress changes
14:24	kstreith	you just have to drill farther down into the site to see those
14:24	kstreith	so it's not moderated in the strictest sense of the word
14:24	kstreith	it's more like "peer reviewed" at some point
14:25	gmartin_cn	Do we expect that folks who come to ballforge.net will not necessarily be going to flossmanuals.net, and vice versa? I like the idea, but are we going to get complaints from folks who ask why they need two accounts to contribute to the project?
14:26	kstreith	gmartin_cn: in general this will lower the contribution bar, so IMHO creating two accounts is sell-able.
14:26	gmartin_cn	ok
14:26	kstreith	and most of our doc contributors probably won't be code contributors
14:26	kstreith	so I don't see a huge amount of people needing two accounts
14:27	kstreith	any more questions, comments before a vote?
14:27	dadkins	what is the current process to contribute to the help documents? can folks even do it?
14:28	kstreith	dadkins: you need to create a patch file for our Flare project
14:28	kstreith	then you would need to create a JIRA issue
14:28	goffena	do any of Ball supplied tutorials have to go through tech editing first?
14:28	kstreith	then you would need to find a committer to sponsor your change
14:28	kstreith	etc....
14:28	goffena	prior to release?
14:29	kstreith	goffena: if we approve FLOSS Manuals, then any Ball supplied tech editing would occur on the FLOSS Manuals site.
14:29	kstreith	dadkins: the problem right now if that Flare requires a per seat license
14:30	kstreith	and a contributor would have to find a committer to sponsor their change
14:30	kstreith	both of which are time intensive enough that I suspect most people would give up first.
14:31	dadkins	how would we handle any tutorials for things which are not open source and could not be hosted on floss?
14:31	kstreith	those are not subject to the Opticks IRC meeting
14:31	kstreith	so from this meeting's perspective, it's not important
14:32	kstreith	i appreciate all the discussion up to this point
14:32	kstreith	and after this point as well.
14:32	kstreith	any more comments, questions?
14:33	rforehan	Floss website mentions using their tools but hosting the amnual on your own site.
14:33	rforehan	amnual->manual
14:33	kstreith	where do you see that?
14:34	rforehan	Under /FLOSSManuals/WhoUses
14:34	rforehan	http://en.flossmanuals.net/FLOSSManuals/WhoUses
14:35	rforehan	Paragraph "Official documentation of software projects"
14:35	kstreith	i see that
14:36	kstreith	i believe they are referring to that fact that you can make it appear on your site
14:36	kstreith	but the actual software/data is still hosted on their hardware
14:36	rforehan	Sounds like it gives you a little more control pver the manual.
14:36	rforehan	ppver->over
14:37	kstreith	i have not seen a method on their site to get the actual software that powers flossmanuals
14:37	gmartin_cn	Right - linking the PDF would be easiest, but we could explore using their API for making it appear withing the opticks.ballforge.net project
14:38	kstreith	gmartin_cn: yes, i agree and I think we should explore that
14:38	kstreith	alright, the meeting is currently 8 minutes over since we are aiming for half hour meetings
14:39	kstreith	so, let's hold a quick vote on whether we have enough info to actuall vote on floss manuals
14:39	dadkins	It looks like you can host it on your own site: "So, you may decide never to list the manual on the front page of FLOSS Manuals, preferring instead to have the docs hosted under your domain."
14:40	rforehan	+1
14:40	kstreith	so, a "+1" vote is to hold a vote on flossmanuals, a "-1" vote is to wait until next meeting to vote on flossmanuals
14:40	gmartin_cn	+0 (since as the CollabNet person, I need to maintain neutrality)
14:40	mconsidi	+1
14:40	raevans	+1
14:40	dsulgrov	+1
14:40	dadkins	+1
14:41	kstreith	+1
14:41	kstreith	we have majority
14:41	kstreith	so, now the actual vote
14:41	kstreith	a "+1" vote is to recommend the usage of flossmanuals for the Opticks user tutorials, a "-1" vote is not recommend the use of flossmanuals.
14:41	gmartin_cn	+0
14:41	dadkins	+1
14:41	rforehan	+1
14:42	mconsidi	+1
14:42	raevans	+1
14:42	kstreith	+1
14:42	dsulgrov	+1
14:42	kstreith	ok, so goffena is considered a no vote on both previous votes
14:43	goffena	yes consider me +0 on both
14:43	wwolfe	+0
14:44	kstreith	wwolfe: in order for your vote to count, you need to arrive in enough time to be considered present
14:44	kstreith	so I will not be counting your vote
14:44	kstreith	alright, next topic
14:44	wwolfe	sorry, had password troubles, no problem on the vote
14:44	kstreith	at this point we have open questions
14:44	kstreith	so does anyone have any open discussion they wanted to bring up
14:45	wwolfe	Any news on MPEG export that is not in JIRA yet?
14:45	kstreith	i just want to remind everyone that probably before the next meeting we will be opening up trunk/future for 4.3.X work
14:46	kstreith	so if you have any binary breaking work, you will have your opportunity shortly and you should be discussing that on the developers mailing list.
14:46	kstreith	or here.
14:47	kstreith	wwolfe: are you looking for updates beyond what is in JIRA?
14:47	kstreith	or are you talking about an issue that is NOT in JIRA?
14:47	wwolfe	I guess, whether there were any things you needed feedback on, any caveats associated with the changes being made
14:48	kstreith	wwolfe: in that case, I think we can discuss that after the meeting
14:48	wwolfe	It would all pertain to the issues already in JIRA
14:48	kstreith	since it's principally a one-way communication with you
14:49	kstreith	any more open discussion?
14:49	kstreith	ok, open discussion is closed
14:49	kstreith	the meeting notes will be available here: https://opticks.balldayton.com/cometwiki/17Nov2008
14:50	kstreith	and the next meeting will be in two weeks
14:50	kstreith	as all, send agenda items for that meeting to myself or tclarke or the developers mailing list.
14:50	kstreith	thank you for attending and contributing
14:50	kstreith	the meeting is officially over.
	***	Closed channel log for #opticks at 11/17/2008 2:51:42 PM